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	<title>Comments on: Dem Pesky Personal Pronouns</title>
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	<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/</link>
	<description>Language and Culture of the Swedish-Speaking World</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/comment-page-1/#comment-927</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transparent.com/swedish/?p=254#comment-927</guid>
		<description>@BM and Majlis: In standard Swedish, everything is as BM said. Continue to use &quot;honom&quot; as the object form, except for cases such as &quot;Det är han&quot; where Swedes would almost always use the subject form, irrespective of which pronoun we&#039;re talking about. So, when answering the phone, most Swedes say &quot;Ja, det är jag&quot; where English-speakers say &quot;Hi, it&#039;s me&quot;.

Now. Old Swedish followed the traditional Germanic four-case system, and for the third person masculine singular it looked like this:

Nominative: han
Genitive: hans
Accusative: han
Dative: honom

In standard Swedish, the dative forms have everywhere crowded out the accusative forms and established themselves as general object forms. But in quite a lot of dialects the accusative lived on as an enclitic, so people would say &quot;Jag såg&#039;an&quot; or &quot;Jag såg&#039;en&quot; (I saw &#039;im). It seems as if this usage not only has survived, but in fact expanded, so that &quot;han&quot; is not just viewed as an accusative enclitic, but in general is used by many language users in the object position. For me, it is fully grammatical to say &quot;Han har inte jag sett på tio år&quot; (I haven&#039;t seen him in ten years). But no one will consider the use of &quot;honom&quot; in the object position to be strange, overly formal or anything like that, so don&#039;t unlearn it.

A final aside: for the third person singular feminine, the Old Swedish paradigm was: hon - hennes - hana - henne. You sometimes hear &quot;hana&quot; be used in the object form in the form of an enclitic &quot;&#039;na&quot;, such as in &quot;Jag såg&#039;na&quot; instead of &quot;Jag såg henne&quot;. This might be somewhat less common among younger language users, especially in urban areas, but far from extinct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BM and Majlis: In standard Swedish, everything is as BM said. Continue to use &#8220;honom&#8221; as the object form, except for cases such as &#8220;Det är han&#8221; where Swedes would almost always use the subject form, irrespective of which pronoun we&#8217;re talking about. So, when answering the phone, most Swedes say &#8220;Ja, det är jag&#8221; where English-speakers say &#8220;Hi, it&#8217;s me&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now. Old Swedish followed the traditional Germanic four-case system, and for the third person masculine singular it looked like this:</p>
<p>Nominative: han<br />
Genitive: hans<br />
Accusative: han<br />
Dative: honom</p>
<p>In standard Swedish, the dative forms have everywhere crowded out the accusative forms and established themselves as general object forms. But in quite a lot of dialects the accusative lived on as an enclitic, so people would say &#8220;Jag såg&#8217;an&#8221; or &#8220;Jag såg&#8217;en&#8221; (I saw &#8216;im). It seems as if this usage not only has survived, but in fact expanded, so that &#8220;han&#8221; is not just viewed as an accusative enclitic, but in general is used by many language users in the object position. For me, it is fully grammatical to say &#8220;Han har inte jag sett på tio år&#8221; (I haven&#8217;t seen him in ten years). But no one will consider the use of &#8220;honom&#8221; in the object position to be strange, overly formal or anything like that, so don&#8217;t unlearn it.</p>
<p>A final aside: for the third person singular feminine, the Old Swedish paradigm was: hon &#8211; hennes &#8211; hana &#8211; henne. You sometimes hear &#8220;hana&#8221; be used in the object form in the form of an enclitic &#8220;&#8216;na&#8221;, such as in &#8220;Jag såg&#8217;na&#8221; instead of &#8220;Jag såg henne&#8221;. This might be somewhat less common among younger language users, especially in urban areas, but far from extinct.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrik Karlsson</title>
		<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/comment-page-1/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrik Karlsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transparent.com/swedish/?p=254#comment-926</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s him = Det är han (nominative)
It&#039;s him they&#039;re looking for = Det är honom de letar efter. (accusative)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s him = Det är han (nominative)<br />
It&#8217;s him they&#8217;re looking for = Det är honom de letar efter. (accusative)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Patrik Karlsson</title>
		<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/comment-page-1/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrik Karlsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transparent.com/swedish/?p=254#comment-925</guid>
		<description>de = they
dem = them

Both are pronounced &#039;dom&#039; (don&#039;t ask me why). You can pronounce them as &#039;de&#039; and &#039;dem&#039;, but it sounds somewhat old-fashioned and  pompous.

Since they are pronounced the same way, many swedes don&#039;t know when to use which in writing. The most common rule is in fact to translate the sentence into english and if it translates to &#039;them&#039; then it&#039;s &#039;dem&#039; otherwise &#039;de&#039;.

Another rule is to always write &#039;dom&#039; which works in either case, but should be avoided in formal situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>de = they<br />
dem = them</p>
<p>Both are pronounced &#8216;dom&#8217; (don&#8217;t ask me why). You can pronounce them as &#8216;de&#8217; and &#8216;dem&#8217;, but it sounds somewhat old-fashioned and  pompous.</p>
<p>Since they are pronounced the same way, many swedes don&#8217;t know when to use which in writing. The most common rule is in fact to translate the sentence into english and if it translates to &#8216;them&#8217; then it&#8217;s &#8216;dem&#8217; otherwise &#8216;de&#8217;.</p>
<p>Another rule is to always write &#8216;dom&#8217; which works in either case, but should be avoided in formal situations.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BM</title>
		<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/comment-page-1/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>BM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 07:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transparent.com/swedish/?p=254#comment-924</guid>
		<description>Majlis:
In the sentence, &quot;han&quot; isn&#039;t the object, the entire phrase &quot;han som stod därborta&quot; is the object (which I believe makes &quot;han&quot; the subject complement, but that&#039;s probably too complex to worry about).

In the google fight:
Det är honom - 8 250
Det är han - 227 000

Ultimately, if the advice from above is that both are acceptable, then both are acceptable.  I would use whichever you hear most often.  You probably will end up using that which you hear most often anyway, whether you like it or not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Majlis:<br />
In the sentence, &#8220;han&#8221; isn&#8217;t the object, the entire phrase &#8220;han som stod därborta&#8221; is the object (which I believe makes &#8220;han&#8221; the subject complement, but that&#8217;s probably too complex to worry about).</p>
<p>In the google fight:<br />
Det är honom &#8211; 8 250<br />
Det är han &#8211; 227 000</p>
<p>Ultimately, if the advice from above is that both are acceptable, then both are acceptable.  I would use whichever you hear most often.  You probably will end up using that which you hear most often anyway, whether you like it or not!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Majlis Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.transparent.com/swedish/dem-pesky-personal-pronouns/comment-page-1/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Majlis Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transparent.com/swedish/?p=254#comment-923</guid>
		<description>I am totally confused maybe because I am studying SweEnglish. I have never thought that we could use &quot;Han&quot; as an objective pronoun. I thougth it was as clear as English:

I saw him - I sag honom
He saw me - Han sag mig and so on.

Now I am confused!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am totally confused maybe because I am studying SweEnglish. I have never thought that we could use &#8220;Han&#8221; as an objective pronoun. I thougth it was as clear as English:</p>
<p>I saw him &#8211; I sag honom<br />
He saw me &#8211; Han sag mig and so on.</p>
<p>Now I am confused!</p>
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