Posts tagged with "Grammar"

Polski via Skype – Learning Polish via Skype?

Posted by Anna 7 Comments
Apr 18 2009

Thank you once again! I’m sure that your answers to my question in the last post are going to be very helpful to any readers who are still not sure whether to sign up for a Polish language class or go it alone. And as a few of you noticed, sometimes there’s no choice – it’s self-study or nothing, because Polish classes can be hard to find in some places.

That brings me to another point I’d like to know your opinion about. What do you think about the effectiveness of learning via Skype with a tutor? A couple of you mentioned this way of studying Polish and this is something I’d like to know more about from the student’s point of view.

You see, I am myself helping a couple of Polish learners via Skype and from where I’m sitting, it looks like a wonderful way to study a foreign language. It can be a quasi-language course, and a quasi-private class with all the convenience of doing it in your pajamas.

But how effective is it, really? Do you think that it can replace a structured “in-person” language course and offer the same learning benefit? To be honest, this is something I’m not sure about, and as a tutor I may be shooting myself in the foot here, but I have to say that Skype is not for everybody. It requires the same discipline and dedication as independent self-study. And it requires more concentration and attention than working one-on-one with a tutor face-to-face – for both the teacher AND the student. Myself, I find it more challenging than working with a student in real life.

But those of you who use this option, do you think you get out of it what you want to get? Are you happy with your results and the progress you are making? And how do you deal with the time difference if you and the tutor live in different time zones? Who stays up? Is it you or the teacher? Do you think this method can be used alone, or is it best in conjunction with something else?

I think Polish is a very challenging language to teach via Skype. A simple conversation lesson about, let’s say, ordering beer, almost always ends up as a very involved grammatical explanation of, let’s say, noun cases or numerals. However, what I think might be vastly different from what you guys think.

I know that quite a few Polish tutors read this blog, and I know your answers will be very valuable not only to me, but to anyone who teaches a foreign language on the internet. And that in turn should bring better results to our students.

  • uczyć się polskiego – to learn Polish
  • uczyć się – to learn

Remember when we talked about “się” and how it can change the meaning of a verb completely?
Here’s your chance to review:

  • Ja uczę polskiego. – I (am) teach(ing) Polish (“language” is implied and understood). – This is what I would say about myself.

But:

  • Ja uczę się polskiego. – I (am) learn(ing) Polish (“language” is implied and understood) – this is what you could say about yourself.

But if you want to direct the first sentence to me, what would you say?

  • Ty uczysz polskiego. – You (are) teach(ing) Polish.

And if I want to direct the second sentence to you, what would I say?

  • Ty uczysz się polskiego. – You (are) learn(ing) Polish.

Ok, next time we will take a look at the many different English tenses this one Polish sentence can be translated into. Yes, it’s grammar time! Oh joy, oh joy!

Polish Language Course or Self-Study?

Posted by Anna 19 Comments
Apr 15 2009

It’s official! I have the best readers in the world here. And this is no exaggeration. Your comments make my life so much easier. Not to mention – making my blog posts easier, too.

I wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to comment. Sometimes your comments are very extensive and contain more grammatical information than I’m willing to look for and provide. You know that I’m not fond of grammar. And teaching grammar is something that I always avoid, regardless of the language involved. That’s why I appreciate every single comment and explanation you provide.

I am very fortunate to have readers like you. And I am even more fortunate to have fabulous readers who are native Polish speakers as well. Poles, by and large, are very proud of their language’s grammar and like to demonstrate their expertise in this tough subject whenever possible. I am a very pitiful exception to this rule.

This became painfully apparent during my flight from Tokyo to Copenhagen yesterday. I was seated next to a young Japanese girl who lives in Ireland and has a Polish boyfriend there. Hi Kaori!!!

She is busy learning Polish in order to be able to communicate with her boyfriend’s family, who don’t speak English. Kaori is not attending any courses and is doing it entirely as a self-study program using her boyfriend and “Teach Yourself Polish”. And while she gets a lot of help from her guy, she says that this incomprehensible grammar of ours trips both of them up nearly every time.

So, here’s my question to you. How do you learn the language? Do you study alone? Or do you think that attending a Polish language course is a better option?

Personally, I firmly believe that a language course is indispensable. I wouldn’t attempt to learn a foreign language by myself. I know it’s not for me, because I’ve tried and failed miserably. The discipline is just not there.

I’d like to make a list of Polish language classes and courses for individual students (not university programs) all over the world. Yes, I know such a list would need to be constantly updated, but I am willing to give it a try. I think it would provide a great resource for those of us who want to learn Polish but need that extra help of a trained instructor. Because our amazing commenters and readers can only get us so far.

There are plenty of Polish language classes for foreigners in Poland, but what about those who want to learn our beautiful (if a bit incomprehensible) language in other countries? Any particular classes you’d like to recommend? In the coming days I’ll be calling to different places and trying to gather information. But in the meantime, if there are any classes/courses you are familiar with, please share the details with us! Thank you!

  • kurs językowy – language course (in general)
  • kurs języka polskiego – Polish language course
  • kurs (noun, masculine, plural: kursy) – course

Gender and Occupations, continued…

Posted by Anna No Comments
Mar 28 2009

Remember when I mentioned that the EU head honchos in Brussels want us to stop using gender specific names for professions? I also said that it was something I agreed with.

Wow! I never thought that that particular post would provoke so many emails. Both for and against.

But you see, we already have many nouns for occupations and professions that are gender–neutral. Or at least they are now, because the same form is used by both men and women.

I have a friend, a female friend, who works on a cargo vessel. She refers to herself as “marynarz” (sailor). Another young woman I know lists her job as “pilot”. And I don’t mean here a tour guide (known in Polish as “pilot wycieczek”), she is a real pilot flying planes for a shipping company.

To that, we can add tons of other women, who can say they are:

  • inżynier – engineer
  • oficer – officer
  • kierowca – driver
  • lekarz – doctor – even though, there is a female form – “lekarka” most women doctors I spoke to agreed they preferred the masculine version – “lekarz”
  • weterynarz – veterinarian
  • architekt – architect
  • strażak – fire fighter
  • redaktor – editor – same as with doctors, ladies who do this job, refer to themselves using the male term – “redaktor” and when necessary add “naczelna” making “redaktor naczelna” if they are editors-in-chief. (I actually called several magazines to ask their editors about it.)

Why do they prefer the male noun? For exactly the same reason that Russ mentioned in his comment to the previous post on this subject.
Take the word “autor” for example. It means “writer” or “author” or “male writer” or “male author.”
“Autorka”, on the other hand, makes it very clear we are talking about a female.

So if I say that “Moja ulubiona polska autorka to Joanna Chmielewska” does it mean that Joanna Chmielewska is my favorite Polish female writer? Or my favorite Polish writer in general? Or should I rather say that “Mój ulubiony polski autor to Joanna Chmielewska”?

Why do I have to distinguish if my favorite writer is male or female? If I were talking about Bharati Mukherjee for example, we wouldn’t have this problem, simply because most people wouldn’t know anyway. Then why do we do it in Polish? Personally, I would say that “Mój ulubiony polski autor to Joanna Chmielewska”, because I prefer her humorous crime stories to other books by Polish authors, be it male or female. (What can I say? I’m not really into heavy-duty literature. Pity Ms. Chmielewska’s books have not been translated into English yet.)

And then, what do we do with those occupations that have been performed by females for so long that we don’t even think about how they would sound in their male versions? Or if they even have masculine forms at all.

In English it’s simple. A nurse is a nurse, regardless of his/her gender. In Polish, a nurse is definitely female, almost by default – pielęgniarka.
The male form – pielęgniarz just sounds awkward and stiff. I had a hard time finding a male nurse in Poland, but when I finally did, and we chatted on skype last week, I asked him what he preferred to be called.

He said, “you know what Anna, either word is fine, heck, any word is fine, as long as the old ladies in my care would finally accept me as a fully qualified, competent nurse. But still… it must be even worse to be a male kindergarten teacher…”

And yeah, he had a point. Female kindergarten teachers are “przedszkolanki” (singular: przedszkolanka). What on earth do you call a guy? Definitely not “przedszkolak” (kindergartener). :)

PS. The male nurse said that most of the time, everybody, his patients and female co-workers call him “rodzynek” (raisin), meaning he’s the only one of his kind.

When Diminutives Aren’t Diminutive

Posted by Anna No Comments
Mar 24 2009

This is odd, but during the last two weeks two different readers, in two different countries, in two different ways mentioned the issue of Polish diminutives. So, who am I to argue with such a coincidence? And because I don’t want any bad karma hanging over my head (those “sexist” occupation nouns can wait), we shall start on the subject of diminutive forms today. We will only start, because, honestly, thick volumes were written on this subject.

Polish seems to be THE language for diminutives. And I’m not talking here only about first names, like for example mine (and by the way, see how many variants you can create from “Anna”), but normal everyday nouns. And adjectives. And adverbs. And other assorted parts of speech. I’ve even heard verbs beaten into submission and mangled into zdrobnienia (singular: zdrobnienie).

But not all diminutives are what they appear on the surface.

Take the word “śmietana,” for example. Its diminutive form is “śmietanka“. Almost all dictionaries translate both words simply as “cream.” But hey, it just wouldn’t be Polish, if it were THAT simple, now would it?

For most Polish speakers and dairy manufacturers, “śmietana” signifies sour cream. If you add “bita” in front of it, then you have “bita śmietana” which is definitely not sour, but whipped cream. And “śmietanka” normally refers to the stuff you pour into your coffee. If you were trying to use śmietana instead, you could be in for a rude surprise – few people I know like their coffee with sour cream.

So yeah, technically, śmietanka is a diminutive form of śmietana, but somewhere along the way they’ve evolved to mean different things.

Another one of those “fake” diminutives is “sałata” and “sałatka”:

  • sałata – lettuce,
  • sałatka – salad.

And then there’s “chusta”. And “chustka”. And “chusteczka”.

  • “Chusta” is what babushki wear on their heads. It can also mean “hijab”.
  • “Chustka” would be what a fashionable lady wears around her neck as an accessory.
  • And “chusteczka” especially when followed by “higieniczna” is what you blow your nose into.

There is some overlap in meaning between the last two words, but mostly when spoken by older people.

These are just a few examples to show you that not all diminutives are what they appear to be. In our next installment, we will tackle diminutive versions of names. So yeah, just how many different ways can you say “Anna” anyway?

PS. I even found photos of packages of both śmietana and śmietanka, but due to technical difficulties with uploading pictures, I will have to add them at a later date

Polish Numbers Revisited

Posted by Anna No Comments
Mar 12 2009

Tomorrow is Friday the 13th (piątek, trzynastego) but instead of writing about superstitions (przesądy), I thought we should take another look at liczebniki (numbers) instead.

A number (no pun intended) of you had questions about numbers, and since they are all very valid questions, it’s more convenient to answer them in a separate blog post, instead of diddling in the comments section.

So, let’s take it from the top:

Pinolona wanted to know how to order food and specify the quantity. She already knows how it works with drinks:

  • proszę jedno piwo, dwa piwa, pięć piw, etc…

It all comes down to cases, really. When you ask for something, in Polish you ask for kogo? co? These questions answer to only one specific case, and that is the accusative case.

UPDATE:

REVISED GRAMMAR EXPLANATION BELOW!

After I posted it yesterday, I’ve been thinking all night about pretzels, and finally got up to consult my brand new “Słownik poprawnej polszczyzny” and wouldn’t you know it, precel is one of those evil nouns that has not one, but TWO correct accusative forms. So, Pinolona was right and my original explanation was correct, too.

So, if you ask for precle (pretzels), you say this:

  • jeden precel proszę or jednego precla proszę (hehehe!), dwa precle proszę, pięć precli proszę, etc.

Just a reminder – precel is a non-personal masculine noun. And a totally confusing noun, because in the accusative form you can say either:

  • jeden precel, or
  • jednego precla

But if you say “jednego precla” you might also be using the genitive case of this horrible noun. That one answers to questions: kogo? czego? In casual speech you will hear plenty of people asking for “jednego precla” or “jeden precel“, and as it turns out – both are correct. Just be careful! When asking for stuff, you use the accusative case, when talking about stuff you don’t have – the genitivie case.

Instead of precel, let’s try to buy rower (a bicycle, also a non-personal, non-animate masculine noun) and see what happens. Not that you’d ever try to buy more than one bike, but who knows, you might be buying for a whole family, ok?

  • jeden rower proszę – one bike please  – asking for kogo? co? – accusative)
  • jednego roweru nie mam – one bike is missing, literally: I don’t have one bike (you’re counting your family’s bikes parked outside, for example) – when talking about stuff you don’t have, it’s kogo? czego? – genitive)

You can see the difference super clearly when you start asking for feminine nouns, for example – róże (roses). Proszę o (kogo? co?):

  • jedną różę, dwie róże, trzy róże, cztery róże (though someone once told me you should never buy an even number of flowers) and pięć róż.

So far, so good…

Now, take a look at those roses in the genitive case (kogo? czego?):

jednej róży, dwóch róż, trzech róż, czterech róż, pięciu róż, etc.

You wouldn’t ask for “pięciu róż” at the florist, now would you? You’d ask for (kogo? co?) pięć róż.

So, if you are still in doubt when it comes to numbers, try to quickly check how those numbers behave when attached to a noun of a different gender. Just avoid those nouns that have two correct accusative forms and you should be fine.

This ties in nicely with Russ’s comment about the accusative/genitive confusion. Here’s a copy of my reply to him (with additional information added for everyone’s benefit):

If you are just talking about straight plurals, without any numerals, then you have psy, kobiety, (dogs, women) etc… THEN their accusative case is psy, kobiety. That’s just simple plurals. Things get really strange if you add a number to the noun.

If you say “pięć psów” (five dogs), that answers both to: kto? co? (nominative) and kogo? co? (accusative). In the genitive case, it would answer to kogo? czego? – pięciu psów.

So, for example:

  • kto/co to jest? – pięć psów, sześć kobiet, siedmiu mężczyzn (nominative – as in: kto? co?)
  • kogo/co widzimy? – pięć psów, sześć kobiet, siedmiu mężczyzn (accusative – as in: kogo? co?)
  • kogo/czego nie ma? – pięciu psów, sześciu kobiet, siedmiu mężczyzn (genitive – as in: kogo? czego?)

Now the difference is very clear.

I thought reposting this comment here would be a good idea, since those numbers are indeed funky and make the nouns behave differently than they would otherwise normally do.

And finally, Barb had a real killer. She wanted to know how to translate the following sentence: “Lucas and two of his friends got lost.” Ouch! How closely translated do you need it?

  • Łukasz wraz z dwoma kolegami zabłądzili.

This would be how it should look in Polish. If you say “Łukasz i dwaj koledzy”, that appears to be correct, but sounds goofy.

So, just to show you that even native Poles would mess this one up, I decided to conduct a little poll and ask what the masses on the street would say. Or rather, the masses in my living room, as I had a house full of people at that time. The masses were more or less equally divided between “Łukasz i jego dwaj koledzy zabłądzili” and “Łukasz i dwóch jego kolegów zabłądzili.”

Which one is correct? I consulted my brand new “Słownik poprawnej polszczyzny” and according to the explanations there it’s “kto (who) zabłądził (got lost)?” Kto (who) is Łukasz i dwaj koledzy (nominative). However, this is good only for a short answer.

If you stretch it into a full sentence, it sounds odd. Therefore, we tend to automatically say that “Łukasz z dwoma kolegami zabłądzili.”

And just for the fun of it, let’s take a look at what would happen if those friends were female (koleżanki). This makes it very clear:

“Łukasz i dwie koleżanki zabłądzili” sounds odd (though this is exactly the sort of stuff one tends to find in Polish grammar workbooks for foreign learners).

We’d say – “Łukasz wraz z dwoma koleżankami zabłądzili.”

And that would make Lucas a very lucky man…

Back to the Top